Crystal Connor-Lane, a lawyer with the South Florida firm Becker & Poliakoff, has met Obama a couple of times.

''She talked about health care, family values, being a mother,'' Connor-Lane says after the Jungle Island event. ``She was right on point. She is so comfortable in her own skin. Being a black woman myself, there is a fine line you have to walk sometimes. If you're intelligent, and you speak your mind, then you're angry. It's an awful place to be, but she's just the right person to overcome it. She is obviously a role model to me and to black women across the country.''

But Obama prefers to focus on the possibility that she and her husband could be role models to all sorts of people if they make it to the White House.

''I think it's going to be important for under-represented minorities all over this country,'' says Obama, whose father was a city worker. ``I didn't grow up with money. I didn't grow up with access. I also know stuff doesn't come out of the blue. My dad had a job, and he had a job all his life. And he could always pay his bills. My mom could stay at home. We went to neighborhood schools, and they weren't phenomenal. But they were decent. . . . And it made a difference.''

Her husband had a similarly challenging upbringing.

''Part of our message is that we're not miraculous,'' she says. ``We had access to good resources. Not even perfect resources, but more than what we've got now. And if we can roll back just a little bit to get there. . . . ''

Some people are threatened by the idea that Michelle Obama would be an opinionated first lady who would spend too much time advising her husband and not enough time throwing tea parties.

''I do firmly believe that the person who is elected to office is the person who is accountable to the people. He is gonna be the one answering the phone at 3 a.m., not me. I'm gonna be asleep,'' she says. ``If the call is coming in about my girls, I'll be there.''

Shalala derides the notion that a president's spouse shouldn't offer her opinions.

''That's silliness. We might as well go back to when we didn't educate women,'' Shalala says. ``For those of us who served in the cabinet, it is helpful to have a candidate who is married to a strong woman because that means they are comfortable with strong women. I think John McCain is comfortable with strong women, too.''

Even if Obama is conscious of presenting her softer side these days, you still get grit. Sure, there are the naysayers, but:

''Look at where Barack Obama is,'' she says. ``He is the presumptive Democratic nominee. A year and a half ago, nobody would have predicted that this could happen in this country.

``The overwhelming reality that has gotten us to this point and will help get us hopefully as a nation to a new point is the reality that America is full of decent people who are really tired of division and back-biting. Folks are struggling. And that struggle far outweighs their fears and their skepticism. And there will always be people who are not ready. But look at where we are.''